What a concept - lower tournament points limits

Just read this comment on BoLS site (see link on right) about the creep of game size and its impact on tournaments and list creativity. I find it really interesting that in the UK all GTs are 1500pts -to encourage creative thinking and compromise, as opposed to the Us where 200pts it common and people just max certain selection. I may as well just post the whole comment here - this is a quote:

Conrad_Dakarn 21 hours ago

"I've noted one thing when speaking to people in America about their games and tournaments and that's to do with the points costs. Almost every game you have is 2000pt or over. Even the tournaments seem to be centred around over 2000pts.

The 40k rulebook recommends that you play 1500-2000pts on a 6 by 4 board.

The MAJOR GW throne of skulls tournament is set at 1500pt, thus showing that GW believe 1500 is the ideal size for a tournament setting on a 6 by 4 board.

Most US games take place using over 2000pt in their tournaments.

Why am I bringing up points cost as an argument about balanced lists....simple really. You get more stuff for more points. In a 2000+ army you can afford to take pretty much anything you want because you've got the point spare to cram in those 3 land raiders or what-ever else and still take a decent set of troops and the like. In 1500 you're much more limited to your options and can't simply slap a list together using the hardest of everything because you'll find you quickly run out of points. An example would be 7 terminators with lightning claws, 1 chaplain and a land raid crusader....coming in at over 500 points. This takes up the main portion of your army for very little in terms of models. The other 1000 would have to contain the troops and any further support. If you're spamming your list as a combat heavy list (using the terminator example) you'd probably take 2 of the above and then take minimum troops and suddenly you're out of points for anything else. That's 2 armour 14 vehicles and a subsequent 16 wounds worth of models for over 1000 points.

A balanced list in 1500pt will contain enough of everything to deal with an orientated list any day of the week. The above example would, for example, find itself in trouble at the sight of a single Vindicator for only 115pt and perhaps 2-3 attack bikes with multi-meltas at 100-150pt. For a quarter of the value you've got two units that can take out the land raider and then the terminators inside with relative ease and do the same again the next turn....all the while, the terminators are trying to get to you to engage in combat. For 265pt, the 1000 odd has been delt with. You can then think on the other side of the box with the other 1235pt of your army for what else you might want to take....the theory works sound in any situation and you can create a list that can deal with any threat as well as maintaining a good balance all round.

A combat heavy army is always going to have the problem that they have to get to the opponent and when they do get their, they have to ensure they can't be shot after they've destroyed the unit they've charged.

A gun line army has to be able to deal with a combat army that can jump on them by turn 2....or even worse....try and compete with another gun line army of equal magnitude.

By creating these sorts of lists for limited points, you've put inherent weakness in your army. Sure, in over 2000pt it's a lot easier to get rid of these weaknesses but that's kind of my point.....1500pt is more challenging for list building in my opinion.

However....I'm over the pond in the UK and we do play a very different style of game to yourselves. Not just in the points but our tactics and game play seem to vary from certain things that you do. So, my opinion may not be valid in terms of a US situation....but, I do plan on coming over eventually for a week's holiday and taking part in one of your larger tournaments, just to get a feel for it....so, who knows? I may learn a few things or hand out some lessons.

A current favoured marine list is quite balanced for all round but with a few small space weaknesses which are covered with the method of the build and my gaming style. My list is also built around 6 games with the different set ups as detailed in the 40k book and a 1500pt limit (UK GT). I've won every game so far with this list...and not just against standard players or other standard lists. I've played a 6 AV14 guard tank army, a space wolf army, a 10 terminator and chaplain marine army and a seer council build Eldar list. Each game with different mission types and deployment. The list is, for me, a balanced list."

Wow- this guy nails it. I think I will push for 1500pt games more often.

Game Summit Weekend

What a great time!

Before leaving Sunday morning, I switched up my list a little, dropping the Farseer for an Autarch, and adding a 2nd Vyper. Registration was at 9am, with game 1 starting at 10am. Here is a quick recap of my games.

Game 1 vs Tau ("Nate").

What a nice army. Period. Awesome paint scheme and well painted. Had a total of I think 17 crisis suits, and one devilfish. Game was Dawn of War deployment and Annihilation, pretty straight forward. The issue for me, being my sneaky self, was the table. Shy of 2 buildings, it was devoid of anything that blocked line of site. Needless to say, the Tau thrived in this environment, with my tanks being "lite up" with markers every turn and my troops bravely doing their best to stay alive. The game went a full 5 turns, and was really gun, despite my loss of 6-3 in Kill points. Overall was still a fun game.

Game 2 vs Imperial Guard ("Lt. Walke")

Tanks, tanks, tanks and more tanks. Basically an armored company squished into the new guard codex. His fully converted and lovingly painted army consisted of 3 Leman Russ, a Demolisher, a Hellhound, Basilisk, 2 veteran squads in Chimeras, and some tank with super-special auto cannons that looked really sweet, can't remember the name. The mission was a tourney special, kind of a mix of Capture and Control and table quarters. Basically, one objective in the dead center to capture along with securing table quarters. "Lt. Walke" went first, and proceeded to "circle the wagons" around the central objective, thus contesting all 4 table quarters at the same time. Try as I might (and with only 2 bright lances in my force) I was only able to stun/shake most tanks, and destroy the weapon on the Hellhound. I did manage to contest all 4 quarters, and on the last turn forced his one remaining "scoring" troop unit to take a panic test, but they PASSED on leadership 7!! "Lt. Walke" pulled out a solid with even though I contested all 4 quarters, and we were laughing and joking the whole game through. A well played game and a blast for sure, despite my loss.

Game 3 vs Alpha Legion ("Anoobis")

What a gorgeous army. Subtle paint scheme, "chosen" unit painted to mimic ultramarines, and a great composition. The mission was Capture and Control, with Spear head deployment. Chaos went first and parked a Predator, tactical squad and Vindicator on the objective in his table quarter and then rushed up a Rhine and Land Raider (each with troops inside) towards the objective on my side. He also saw his terminators come in on turn 2 and deep strike close to my objective. The ensuing firefight was really back and forth, with the game hanging in the balance for a couple turns. I will state right now that his Land Raider was the star of the show, brushing off bright lances, pulse lasers and Fire Dragons to allow him to contest my objective. I did get a vyper in to contest his, but Anoobis was a smart general and pulled out the victory. We had a blast, playing the game and admiring our units lack of ability at times. Props to Anoobis for the balanced and fun Chaos Marine list to play against - no crazy lashes etc here.

So, 3 games down and 3 losses. Not shaping up to take the "Best General" prize home, but I was thoroughly enjoying myself and all the games. Maybe it was luck, or a testament to the Ottawa Gaming community, but I had yet to play any "beardy/cheesey" lists or players. On to game 4!

Game 4 vs Blood Ravens ("Missing Link")

BEST GAME OF THE DAY. I don't know what happened with this game, but damn was it awesome. Scenario was simple, Spear head deployment and 2 objectives placed in the center of the opposing quarters - combined with Annihilation. "Missing Link" had what can only be called a perfect example of a marine army. 2 Tactical in rhinos, a pair of Predators, 2 Dreadnoughts, and a command squad in a Razorback. Oh, and as we noticed AFTER the game, his list included a 10 man Assault squad that he had "forgotten" in his case ALL DAY - He hadn't fielded in in any matches, basically playing -250pts all day. When we discovered this, his face went as red as his power armor for a good 30 minutes, and much laughing and kidding ensued.

But to the game. Where do I start. I couldn't hit a thing. On one turn, for example, I fired every strength 8 or better weapon I had ( 2x Bright lance, 2x EML, 2x Pulse laser, Fire Prism ) at his one dreadnought and all I was able to do was immobilize it. CRAZY. My only consolation was that the Blood Ravens seemed to have picked up on the ineptitude of my force, and decided to one-up me by missing just as much - if not more! We had a memorable combat around on objective, with a storm guardian squad accompanied by my Autarch lasting 4 round of combat against a tactical squad and his command squad before succumbing. We were laughing so much that the outcome of the game never really seemed to matter. I did manage to squeeze out a victory, only by "Missing Link" failing a morale test on a tactical squad and it fleeing on the bottom of turn 6, so it didn't count as contesting. So, finally, in game 4, I won.


What a great day and great set of games. All my opponents were stellar players, and supreme sportsman. I thoroughly enjoyed the great tables and fully painted armies on them. I also managed to walk away with the "Best Sportsman" award - and some Phat Loot! A 10 man tactical squad, that may just be the start of a new Chaos Marine army, we'll see. I have loads of bikes to paint still.....but that's another story. Please check out the event at http://gamesummit.ca . It was really well run and a great time for all sorts of gamers. There is a winter one scheduled - so check it out. Photos of the event are up at http://www.flickr.com/photos/gamesummit/ also so check them out.

Till next time...